"Yes, If" Thinking: Sharon Johnson of Mode Global on AI, Logistics, and Legal Leadership

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)01:16
Sharon, welcome to the show.

Sharon Johnson01:17
Yes. Thank you for having me.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)01:19
So let's start with your early path. you, of all the GCs that I work with, you are probably one of the more business forward thinking about metrics around AI, about engaging the team, change management. You've had a Gartner subscription for a long time thinking about how to really drive not only your company, but the industry forward. So that's the backdrop. Do you attribute that to having worked in the business or not as a lawyer before law school?

Sharon Johnson01:45
Absolutely. I remember really not until I was already in law school, you when I was managing contracts at the same time, I was sitting in a team full of lawyers and I just kept noticing that I just felt like I processed things a little bit differently. They would look at contracts and just see legal risk and then I would see the legal risk part. But then I'd also, you know, I'd experienced the commercial pressure behind that. you know, If the business wanted to sign it, I knew the pressure behind that. knew the commercial pressure behind why they wanted to do it, what the margin implications were, all those fun things. Because I'd spent years before becoming a lawyer even taking that job working in the business in various positions.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)02:35
So it sounds like you were, when people talk about contracts management, as a function, you were doing it as a function before you were a lawyer. so, yeah, so what did that mean? And what does it mean like now with AI doing some of the legal stuff, the kinds of work that you did, so you were at Verizon early in your career. What kind of context was it? Take us down memory lane for just a second, and then I want you to time machine AI back there.

Sharon Johnson02:56
Sure. That's no, that's no problem. So I had worked before even having that position. I had worked in other areas. I'd worked across marketing and sales and account management, project management, for example, and then contract management. And it was all done before I practiced law. I really had the ability to see different aspects of how people would look at those. And so a contract manager really just reviews the terms of the agreement and you can review RFPs, you negotiate with the customers, then it would be customers of Verizon. I remember I had walked into, they didn't have a job at that moment when I initially was trying to become a contract manager. And I walked into the office, kind of declared my wanting to work in there and that I had been going to law school and they found a place for me. And so I was able to really use some of the tools that I had before. So marketing, really helped me learn how to read an audience. And that's something you can take really through your whole career, whether you're in a boardroom or whether you're lobbying in Washington or working with Ops on strategy. you know, it's really, you're always thinking about who you're talking to and what they need to hear. And then I also had experience working in the, you know, the finance area. And so, you know, I'm not just looking for legal risks there. I'm thinking about what, does the business do? And, know, what's the commercial upside of it and what it means for the bottom line. And then, you know, I've also been in sales. And so when you're on that side, do you understand there's some urgency and there's some trade-offs that you have to live in? And then, know, project management, I still say that was the job that prepared me better than any other job for being a general counsel, because you have to learn how to push goals forward and how you can handle, you know, complex, you know, cross-functional work, whether it's some, you know, something you're trying to integrate after you do a big &A deal or, you know, just try and manage things across. companies in, you that are scaling fast, you're always going to try and push that project forward. And so, you know, now with with back then you didn't have the tools of AI. And so you're just really trying to learn on the fly and learn from the people around you. And all the people around me at that point were lawyers. And I was actually the only non lawyer that they had given a chance to. So I was able to be trained by them. Now I think it would be so much easier. to have a contract manager really in the business because they could rely on tools like GCAI.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)05:48
I love that. So a couple of threads to pull there. I've said on this podcast, I deeply believe that, you know, sales or the ability to influence, or in your case, you explained marketing and the ability to explain concepts is like this skill that is like a life skill, you know, a business skill that the lawyers, you know, still need to absorb. And so your advice is actually pretty contrarian of like, just go ahead and do that before law school. Say more about.

Sharon Johnson06:17
Yeah. I mean, I think the best thing that ever happened to me was to start my legal career. And, you know, after law school, the best thing that happened is I didn't start it right away. So I wanted to be a lawyer. Life happened and I wasn't able to do that at first. And when I finally got to law school, and I wasn't really learning how to think about, you know, business problems, I was learning the technical language. for things that I already knew. And so now when I have to sit across from a business leader, I'm not translating from legal to business. We're basically speaking the same language. so you can build that connection as well. Like, hey, I've been on your side, or oh, I can see things from the way you're looking at it there. And so I would say to some lawyer or some young lawyer who wants to be a GC, go work in the business for a little bit. Even before you go to law school, not really just as a lawyer embedded in the business, but actually in the business. Whether you're in sales or whatever, you're sitting in that chair and you're the one that's feeling that pressure. I would say too, having an MBA was important to me as well, to have the actual training behind it.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)07:17
Hurry up! I love that. Yeah, no, for me, I was in tech and that's what I do now. My first job in product management was at Yahoo and now I, you know, lucky to say that I get to manage products. Awesome. All right, so let's talk about the framework that you use for decision-making. And, you know, a lot of people say, and I think we've heard as a theme on this pod that, you know, you can have the very best legal answer, but if people ignore it, it's basically worse than, like you can actually actively hurt the business doing that. So one of the things that you, a framework that you're giving, we always love frameworks here on the pod, is yes if. So tell me what this yes if framework is and teach us.

Sharon Johnson08:11
I think for Yes If... would say that it means that you have a mindset shift. When the business comes to you with something, you're not just defaulting and trying to find all the reasons that it's not going to work. Our default on our team is really trying to figure out, what are you trying to accomplish? How can we get there safely? It just means that we're not always saying, you know, no, or finding the reasons you can't do it, but trying to find the reasons that you can. And so yes, you can do this if you structure it this way, or, you know, if we get this approval first. And so it just tries to find a way to keep that conversation moving ahead or moving forward. It sounds like, you know, you're trying to say, I understand where we're going. I understand, you know, here's how that we need to get here. This is what you might need to watch for. And that's just different than saying, here are all the things that could go wrong.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)09:09
a great example of when that framework worked.

Sharon Johnson09:12
Yeah, no, I'll just pick up very high level.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)09:13
Obviously, privilege, what have you. I have to imagine COVID. You work in logistics in COVID. So like logistics in COVID, know, nobody's got toilet paper, people are freaking out. what, any fun stories from there or any, any, anything to relay from there?

Sharon Johnson09:24
you that one's not coming to mind, but one thing that did come on is something that we just did, you know, recently, we had a customer that wanted us, to do operations in Mexico. And so we had to take on a lot of oblig- you know, we wanted to take a lot of obligations on, but we wanted to make sure that we actually won the deal first. And so part of that was really structuring, you know, some of the things in the background and having you know, really a creative response to that. you know, we could, you know, do a pre-built company and have it ready to go and, you know, build out some of the compliance things that we needed to have done. You know, you could do, you know, just different things without doing the full commitment until you found it. And then once, you know, you were able to get the award, you could put that in place. Now we could have just looked at it and said, No, we can't do it, it's too risky. There's a big chance that we're not gonna get it, but then we would have missed out on a really great award. And so we really worked as a team and put our heads together and figured out a way to get to yes.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)10:31
So when it came down to it, then what does it look like after you win the deal to then have all these risks and are, you know, all these things that you agreed to, do you get money for them? Do you not? And then, you know, I think a moment that a lot of our listeners are in and me now from the CEO side is like, you've done similar deals in the past. You've either had them work out or not. You really don't know in advance. So what can you do?

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)10:58
in that kind of, you've signed, we're gonna do this deal. We knew about.

Sharon Johnson11:01
We tried to build in like escape hatchet, you know, like for example, like if we didn't get the deal, then, you know, we wouldn't have to go through with the lease or, you know, things like that. So we build in those protections and, know, again, we had an off shelf company built so that if we didn't win the deal, we didn't have to put it into rapid fire action. And so we did a lot of those things. ahead and had them get ready so that we would be ready to do all these. And then, you know, once we were able to do that, it just, it just worked out perfectly.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)11:34
Love that. Six lawyers, $3 billion business, that's quite a ratio. So I've heard, it's changed with AI and we can talk about that, but I've commonly heard one lawyer per every 100 million in revenue in the software world, which is a little healthy, I would say. But in this world, why do you think that ratio is lower? Obviously, I know that you do a good job, but is there anything structural, anything, I know in logistics and certainly in construction and a lot of industries,

Sharon Johnson11:40
Okay.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)12:05
You know, people, I think, tend to over lawyer a little less, which I like. But anything else about either the industry or what you've done that's allowed you to have that ratio.

Sharon Johnson12:11
Yeah. Well, I think in some ways logistics is a thin margin business. And so I'm sure that that plays into it as well. And also we have great support with outside counsel before and then with tools internally now that helps us get more done faster. so really to have such a small team, everybody has to be working on that high level. When you're lean, there's just no place to hide. I would say we'd have to be disciplined where we spend our time. We do things like creating playbooks, escalation paths, or we might build contract positions out before we need them so that you have that. But even when you have all those things and you have these great tools, for example, like GCI or like some of the other tools that we use, you still have to have good judgment because the business, you have to help them work through the right guard rails. I think with the space of growth and the complexity of the deals that we do, I think we would have had to grow a lot bigger of a team, I think, without some of the tools that we have right now. Right now we do have a hundred percent adoption of AI across our team. You know, whether it's things like contract review or regulatory monitoring or risk assessments or research, compliance workflows. mean, everything we look at and say, how can we make this more efficient? And it's always like, I question if we're not using AI, why aren't we? And there should be a good reason. You know, there are weeks that I have saved over two head counts for our team for and you know, for just using the tools and I have KPIs to back that up. And so all of that capacity goes straight into being able to work in higher value or higher, more strategic work where, you know, we're just able to do things more efficiently, I think.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)14:27
What's a good example of work that you're able to do that you couldn't before? So I know you do some public policy stuff. It seems like you're always taking a picture in front of Capitol Hill. I don't know. But what's an example? then the logistics industry in particular, with tariffs and other things, I think people have talked about it being under siege. And then there's other people that talk about it. There was a great podcast with the founder of, I think he's calling it Adam, but Travis Kalanick was the founder of And he's like, look,

Sharon Johnson14:34
I'll give you one minute. yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)14:55
you know, the idea of logistics and moving things and in real life, like AI has been applied to it a little bit, but not that much. But so anyway, so two part question. One is, what strategic work are you doing? Any fun examples? And then I want to get into Travis's point next.

Sharon Johnson15:12
I would say that we use one of the first ways I used AI, in the business. And when I, when I really started thinking, wow, like this is going to be a game changer is a very large vendor wanted to do, we had to do some comp, you know, just general, typical compliance work, risk assessments, things like that. And the price tag that they wanted to give us was huge. And I remember thinking, you know, I'm a certified compliance and ethics professional. I, you know, have been working in compliance for quite some time. You know, let me figure this out. Let me go and figure out how to do a risk assessment. And, you know, I'd been through a few of them before and I, I used AI to really help me build questions. And, you know, obviously we have with all the right security and, you know, making sure we weren't putting anything, you know, from a confidentiality aspect out, but you know, to really run a full risk assessment internally and we saved, would say through the last few years, hundreds of thousands of dollars on that. so, even doing that or running fun programs out there or running analysis on risk universe, like you said, with the things like the tariffs coming up every day or different things like that, but just to constantly. analyze different ways that we can be using it or different lawsuits that might come down. Everything's constantly shifting. so when you use AI, you can monitor things like federal register notices or executive orders or trade policy signals and things like that. And that way you can be ready to advise the business and jump on things before they actually require you to take effect.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)17:00
Has your CEO or others in the business noticed how empowered you and your team are, Sharon? So as context, so Sharon's using AI for two years. She tracks the KPI, she sets goals. She has every single team member AI enabled. Like really, for those of you listening, like GC's looking to be at the forefront of AI transforming a department. Like she is the shining star. But I want to talk about how mode as a company experiences that. Tell me a little bit about that.

Sharon Johnson17:27
I, I leaned in hard and you know this too. I leaned hard into AI, immediately. And I remember, you know, had an in logistics, you know, we are also involved, you know, on the business side, you know, working with things, you know, using predictive analytics. and so, you know, it used to be back in the day, you would have, brokers that would have to pick up the phone and call this person and then call this person and. You know, now a lot of it's done autonomously. And yeah, I think people definitely notice there is, you know, a larger volume and quality of work that comes out of legal, I think, just given, you know, the outputs and the speed and the strategic input that we're, you know, really able to provide the business, you know, and other people, and I'm not afraid to tell people, you know that, like I'm always. an evangelist when it comes to that. Hey, you and I remember going, you know, to different departments that hadn't even really started working with it and saying, and, and, know, I even have a business person that I, that has been signed up for GCAI that has been using that in our finance team. And so I was so excited about this that, you know, I wanted to tell other departments as well.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)18:41
Has it changed how mode hires at all? There's a lot of fascinating things now from CEOs and others. And you said you're already lean. You're literally moving things, getting things from point A to point B in the safest, most cost effective, most reliable way. mean, presumably that's the job, right? So how does that fit with some of the crises we're hearing around knowledge workers and all these things?

Sharon Johnson19:08
I think it changes who you look for. You definitely want to have someone who has that skill. Those things definitely matter. I think you need people that are adaptive and that are comfortable and willing to use new tools that can get to the answer quickly, but who aren't afraid to use the tools and then apply judgment on top of that. Because you can tell people that use tools poorly. And like, it drives me crazy. It's a big waste of my time. I can't tell you how many people like, you know, here, I've spent this time, you know, creating this legal answer. And here's what you know, we think we should say. And it's just like a mess. And it causes us more work. you know, and I'm sure outside counsel probably says the same thing when I first started using AI. But, you know, I think you just, you just need to know that, you know, I mean, I think it's probably changed in a meaningful way. We're still always, we're still gonna need bodies. We might have them working on different things that are able to be automated now. But, know, or it might make a difference on, for example, if I'm gonna, I may hire someone who is less experienced now, maybe direct from law school even, just because I have the ability to, you know, teach them better. Like we've had some interns.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)20:28
Wow.

Sharon Johnson20:34
And the work product that we were able to get out of them is far above what previous interns have done just because they have better tools and we're not, we like to teach them how to use them.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)20:44
Love that. One of the Twitter commentators that I listened to or follow said that with AI, it will separate out people with good judgment from people with bad faster because if everybody has AI to produce 10x, it's like the 10x bad work versus the 10x good work. It's very clear. Has that been your experience, maybe not in legal, but just at large?

Sharon Johnson21:00
Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, look, with AI, you can get a pretty good answer, but it's not going to tell you, you know, if a particular deal or is worth the risk given your, you know, your company's strategic position. It's not going to be able to, you know, do all the, I don't want to say the emotional IQ aspect of it too. You got to be able to read the room and read the facts and then apply them. You know, I agree. think judgment is really going to become more valuable, not less. And, you know, and then AI will just help you handle the things around it. And so, you know, the, it's going to help the people that know how to use AI. It's going to let them move faster. But it's also going to help them understand, you know, when they need to, you know, slow down because they're going to have to be able to apply the judgment on top of the quick answer that they get back. and mold it in a way that's best received by the business.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)22:08
So this is another, so Sharon, I think you and I have a lot in common. I was gonna do a blog post about, exactly, exactly, for those of you listening, we've both got, what is it, Baby Seal Black is our paint color here with the Sherwin-Williams or what have you. anyways, all right, probably delivered on a global logistics truck. But anyways, let's dive in. So something you wrote in your prep is something that I believe as well, which is,

Sharon Johnson22:14
not just the blue wall.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)22:37
this idea that being able to influence and take risk is a career hack for lawyers, for really any executive. And you said early in your career, you learned how to cold call. And I wanna tell you my own story. I literally cold called to get my first job in tech at Yahoo. I was able to reach Michael Callahan, who was then corporate counsel there. He was a Georgetown alum. And I sent him an email. This was before LinkedIn. I said, hey, I'm interested in tech and law. And then, That was my first job in law and tech. And here I am 20 whatever years later doing the same thing. So you said the thing with cold calling is that you do it, you ask these people for things and somehow it keeps working and it's been this amazing career hack. Usually I'm listening to Tim Ferriss or these kind of Twitter influencers talk about this, but I wanna hear your version. So tell us about some fun things you've gotten from cold calling and what eventually like what led you to develop this theory of that cold calling is a hack.

Sharon Johnson23:37
Yeah, I would say that. So I've done this a couple of different times. I think we touched briefly at the very beginning how I walked my way into a contract manager position that way that wasn't an open position. And then I guess I was on a roll because I thought, well, since I'm in law school, why don't I reach out and call the top lawyer at that point of Verizon? think it was then it was GT. And so I reached out to him and, you know, this is the guy that would, it was Bill Barr. He's the, he was the general counsel then. And he went on to serve as a U S attorney general under Bush and then under Trump, I believe. And so I found his direct number. just called him up one morning and I told him I was in law school and I was going during the evenings. He actually mentioned, I think that he, did that as well. And so that was a nice connection point. and that I wanted an internship because I wanted to be a GC one day. And I just asked for his advice. And so he told me that one of the things I could do is go to a law firm and work there for a couple of years before going in-house. He said, because you're going to be working with external counsel your entire career. And so it's better to really understand how they operate, how they feel, how they experience things. And so I did. And he was absolutely right. That perspective has been extremely valuable.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)25:03
And then you went on to become general counsel of the company that turned you down for the contract that went wrong. So that must have been a fun full circle, tell that story.

Sharon Johnson25:08
Yeah. Yeah, so when I applied at, when I was at Verizon and I applied to be a contract manager there, at the same time, I also applied to be a contract manager at another company, CompuCom. And so I didn't get the CompuCom job and I did get the Verizon one. And so it was just really one of those full circle moments because later after I did graduate law school, you know, I got some experience working in the business as a lawyer, then I reached out and I don't know how I had the guts to do that, but just applied to be a general counsel for CompuCom. And that's where I landed my first general counsel role. They told me at one point I didn't have the experience for a contract management role, but I stuck with it. And years later I came back as their general counsel. so I just really look at that as proof that it doesn't mean that a closed door is gonna be a permanently closed door. It just wasn't the right time for me. And that's a lesson I would want anybody to take from it. And if someone gives you a no today, it doesn't mean that's a no forever. It just means not yet. And so if you just keep showing up and you keep working hard and you keep trying to get better, that opportunity might come around again, even on better terms.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)26:30
love that.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)26:31
All right, so this cold calling habit, super exciting. How do you think about it in terms of like your career now? So asking people, but like I had a judge that I worked for that said, no ya lo tienes. In other words, like ask, because you already got your no if you don't ask. So when you think about the advantage of your company, getting things done,

Sharon Johnson26:51
Right.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)26:57
Do you still do the kind of things that your mentor told you to do? And any good examples now that GCs can use practically?

Sharon Johnson27:03
think you have to use those skills now. the people that make it to the top levels are the ones that aren't, they're not afraid to feel uncomfortable, I think. Lawyers, as lawyers, we're always trained to be careful or precise and always really focus on the risks. And those are good qualities for work. Don't get me wrong on that. But sometimes that can hold you back in your career. You have to get used to being uncomfortable. And so when you're willing to throw yourself out there and do it thoughtfully, of course, that's what leadership even requires. On our legal team, it's the same way. We don't really wait for the business to come to us and really name a problem and precisely put the... you know, all corners around that. And, you know, you sit with them and really try and talk through the problem or find it or be in the room where the decision gets made, you know, because that's where you're going to be able to add the most value.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)28:06
This idea of taking a risk and putting yourself out there, I've enjoyed, I keep coming back to Twitter, but there's an email list that you can join that's tech emails. All it is, is emails that were found in discovery of basically tech titans. You get access to essentially Zuckerberg's email, Elon Musk's email, Sam Altman's email, and it's just fascinating. One of the funniest things is an example of which is what you described, which is, Elon rounding up investors to buy Twitter. And he basically texts and he's like, Hey, it'll be fun. You know, what are you in billion dollars? Let's go. And people are like, yeah, sure. Let's do it. And here it is. Who knew that it would eventually roll into what's going to be the biggest IPO of 26 with SpaceX. So, you know, this like serendipity thing, have you seen it, you know, in your industry and like, how do you, how do you

Sharon Johnson28:53
Mm-hmm. Right.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)29:02
do that, right? Because I think you've had a lot of great career advice about getting to where you are and said, you got to use those skills, but to really be great. And I mean, obviously you work with a great leader now. Any other advice or, kind of how do people increase their luck surface area to do that? It's not natural for lawyers and you've clearly got that ability.

Sharon Johnson29:13
Bye I think, like again, can't be afraid to go for it. You have to understand that rejection, I think, isn't personal. In many situations, there are going to be people that are going to say no, and some people are going to say yes. And if they say no, like really, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? I love your story about Elon because you know the casual nature of the text and you know talking about billions of dollars. It's you know it definitely shows you you know how someone is willing to be able to push forward on something like that and I would say just as lawyers you can't necessarily wait for opportunity to come knocking and in your own little square you have to be able to put yourself out there go find the opportunities. You know, show up in the room if you're not invited to the room and you know, there's a way for you to work your way in there with trust, you know, thoughtfully again. You know, start doing that to increase, you know, your surface area. Like I'll even say one time I was working with private equity and just reached out to one of the PE guys and said, hey, do you got a list of all the general councils for all the different companies that you work with? I want to reach out to them and you know, talk to them, maybe there's a way we can, you know, share information that's not from a confidential nature among businesses, but forms and things like this. This is before we had AI and you know, that way it'll save us money. We don't have to go, you know, through outside council for some of that stuff. And he's like, nobody's ever asked me that before. So, you know, it's just finding ways to collaborate and, you know, take those relationships and, you know, people want to help. they want to reach out and you'll be helpful to them too. And especially even as you know this from Women's General Counsel Network. I mean, what a great group that really everybody supports each other. There's enough pie for everybody. It's not like you have to push people out. You don't have to be afraid of helping people. You can help them and in turn, maybe they'll pay it back down the road and maybe they won't. Maybe you're just helping them out, but either way.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)31:21
Yes.

Sharon Johnson31:33
it makes sense to do the right thing there.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)31:36
Interesting. So shout out to, course, WGCN, where I think I got my start and how I met Sharon. Shout out to Jan. I'll forward her the episode link. But I was recently in Atlanta. So we're working with a bunch of companies in Atlanta through a program called Engage, which is a VC there. basically, Racetrack, the convenience store chain, has a great legal team and been working with them.

Sharon Johnson31:41
the... yeah.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)32:01
But one of the things that was said about the Atlanta business community was that nice or at least collaboration is the secret sauce of Atlanta. So do you think what you just said of like, we can help each other out and people want to help each other. Do you think it's regional? So I think you're Texas based, right? And have you noticed regional differences in that?

Sharon Johnson32:22
I've lived in multiple areas of the country. grew up in the Northeast, lived in the Southeast, lived in Texas and California. So I don't know that it's necessarily regional based. It just might be being used to working in that area and being collaborative. mean, even when you talk about WGCN, there's some people that are just superstars there. And I have reached out to them. Was it Effie Silva? I remember reaching out to her one time just saying, wow, you impress me. And I just want to let you know I'm a fan. Just not being afraid to give out those kudos to people who you see doing a good job. Because it's great. And I admire that. And I'm going to learn from her. And we'll all learn together in some things. But it's just really using that to push each other. and to support each other, to cheer for each other. you know, just look, it's crazy out there sometimes. And so it's nice to have a group and a collaborative safe space where we can all help each other get business done.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)33:31
think that's right. I mean, it's also one of these things where the ability to see opportunity and help others, there's like this. I have one of the sales people here at GCAI told me, he said, I don't know how many mentors you've had, Cecilia, but let's sell to all of them because like, well, you know, some GC, like even you, it's like, you know, she was my mentor or this person was the general counsel of Y company and other general counsel of Z company. They were my mentor. And this like being in a position to pay back mentors, not only pay it forward, but also pay it back. It's, it's incredibly rewarding. And I think it has made a huge difference in my career. So love to hear you see the same.

Sharon Johnson33:54
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)34:08
Amazing, all right, so let's go into the lightning round here. So a myth about legal or lawyers that you'd love to dispel.

Sharon Johnson34:17
would say the safest legal advice is the best legal advice because that's not always true. The safest answer might be, there's no risk, don't do it. But that's not going to necessarily move the business forward. to just really give the safest answer every time, feels like you're protecting the company, over protecting it. But really what you're doing is just training people to work around you and stop asking.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)34:45
book, experience, or mentor that has shaped how you think.

Sharon Johnson34:50
Okay, I'll say two answers for a mentor. I'm gonna say Russ Patridge, he's the guy at Verizon a long time ago. He taught me to take my building blocks and build a tower, a wider base across to go wide because the wider my base, the taller my towers can go. And so that took me across multiple industries. It took me across multiple departments. It took me in legal and in the business and really it gives me such a comprehensive understanding. I'm just so grateful for it. And for a book, just really quickly, one of my favorites now that I'm reading is called The Coming Wave by Mustafa Suleiman and I think it's Michael Baxter.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)35:31
Something you wish someone would have told you before you became a lawyer.

Sharon Johnson35:36
I actually have a lot of ideas, a lot, sometimes to the point where my team's asking me, like, OK, slow down on the coffee today. But I would say that just having a lot of ideas can be good, but it also can be as dangerous as having none. And I heard Jeff Bezos say, he told a story about that, and it just clicked for me. So I wish I would have heard that early on. And it's not that what he had heard was, you have enough someone told him, have enough ideas to destroy this company. And the point wasn't that they were bad. The point was that releasing them all at one time can create chaos. And so you have to really prioritize and sequence and figure out which of the me two or three that are going to actually matter right now and then let the rest wait. And so early in my career, I tended to brainstorm and I would just hit people with so many ideas. It was probably troubling for them.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)36:35
As a fellow ideas gal, can emphasize it's funny that with AI, they're like, this is the era of ideas gal. So let's see. But I have had the same Bezos advice and it is tough to surround yourself with people that can catch the ideas or pitch them back to you in some cases. I love that advice. Awesome. All right. So let's move on to a closing reflection. you wrote something in your prep that I want to end on. You said all your career moves.

Sharon Johnson36:52
Okay. Yeah.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)37:04
started with, basically made a point about persistence and said, you know, show up day after day. I'm going to give you a Taylor quote that I think gives us, of course I love Taylor Swift, also intellectual property and legal genius by the way, but she says, she's like, you can get tired, but you can't get tired of it basically. And then similarly, you know, it's like Dr. J, basketball player says, being a professional means doing what you love every day.

Sharon Johnson37:07
Mm-hmm. Yeah. There you go, I agree, 100%.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)37:33
even on days when you don't feel like it. so, tell us about that and this persistence.

Sharon Johnson37:35
That's. say that a closed door is not a permanent door. It just means not yet. You should keep building. You should keep learning. Keep making the ask. The people that really get where they want to go are not the ones that had every door open for them. They're the ones that kept learning until they figured out how to open it.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)38:03
All right, anything else? Where can our listeners find you?

Sharon Johnson38:08
So, you know, I'm at MoGlobal and then I'm also on LinkedIn. So feel free to connect if you want to continue the conversation. And, you know, I really appreciate having the time to meet with you. You probably remember right after we became at MoGlobal, our legal team became a finalist of, you know, best use of AI in 2026 legal week leaders in the tech awards. We were right alongside our little team of six. We're right alongside Meta, Uber, and DHL. And I don't know if you remember, you may not remember, but the first person I reached out after talking to my team was to you. And I sent you an email and I just thanked you and said, look, we couldn't have gotten here without your support and without GCAI. And so just so grateful to be able to talk to you today about all this stuff.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)38:56
I it. This was so much fun, Sharon. I'm so happy. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me and with the group and for everything you do for your company, your industry, for women lawyers, for really everything. Thank you so much. This was really lovely.

Sharon Johnson39:12
Thanks.

Cecilia Ziniti (GC AI)39:12
That was Sharon Johnson, the SVP and Chief Legal Officer at Mode Global and one of the most business focused legal folks we've ever had on the show. Whether you're leading a legal team, working inside one, building the tools that power them, being the ideas person behind them, head over to GCAI and see how the most forward thinking folks in legal and business are doing their best work. Follow CZ and friends wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time. Thanks.

Sharon Johnson39:36
Thanks.